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Thread: Nitrous tuning!!!!

  1. #51
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    Re: pump problems

    Originally posted by 857
    I think you need to set your fuel pressure flowing. you pump is probably not the problem. how are you setting the fuel pressure? give us all the details
    JUST BY RAISING IT AND LOOKING AT THE GUAGE WHILE IM RAISING IT,I DONT HAVE A RETURN LINE WOULD THAT CAUSE IT TO ACT LIKE IT DOES??

  2. #52
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    nitrous tune

    you need a flow tube dude! you can set the pressure flowing that way
    SCUMBAG LOW-LIFE BECAUSE I RUN NITROUS

  3. #53
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    Re: nitrous tune

    Originally posted by 857
    you need a flow tube dude! you can set the pressure flowing that way
    would i need to put a regulator for the carb and NOS seperate??or can i regulate it how i have it set up now?

  4. #54
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    nitrous tune

    I would run 2 separate regulators,12-803 holley,
    SCUMBAG LOW-LIFE BECAUSE I RUN NITROUS

  5. #55
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    Re: nitrous tune

    Originally posted by 857
    I would run 2 separate regulators,12-803 holley,
    ok cool ima try it as soon as i get it back together .what psi more or less should a NOS system need to flow 225 shot in the safe mode im just curious to know more or less .thanks for the replies

  6. #56
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    10 lbs of flowing pressure...

  7. #57
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    Originally posted by JGlass
    10 lbs of flowing pressure...
    what can happend if i run my Demon carb at high fuel psi ??

  8. #58
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    nitrous tune

    this kind of questioning is more of the reason you need a flow tube! you are not increasing the fuel pressure on the carb. you will be setting fuel pressure with the regulator for the nitrous. the best way to set the fuel pressure flowing is with a flow tube. I can't tell you where to set the pressure without knowing what jet you are using in the plate and what jet you are flowing your kit with. there are alot of variables that need to be ironed out before just blurting out a number to tell you to set your pressures at.
    SCUMBAG LOW-LIFE BECAUSE I RUN NITROUS

  9. #59
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    The fuel will just blow by the needle and seats if your pressure is too high.

  10. #60
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    Fuel Pressure??

    Just wanted to ask a quick question on setting fuel pressure. I am running a fogger setup. 2 fuel and 2 nitrous solenoids. The formula that I am using is as follows:

    Jet size2 x number of nozzles.
    Then take the square root of this number.
    This is the Test Jet in thousands of an inch..

    Okay....now this would be correct for 1 fuel solenoid right??

    I was browsing around on NOS' website. They are using this formula:

    Jet size2 x number of nozzles (per fuel solenoid) .
    Then take the square root of this number.
    This is the Test Jet in thousands of an inch.

    I noticed it said "per fuel solenoid"!!!


    So....I give NOS tech a call. The tech tells me to set my fuel pressure the way that I have been and not to worry about the second fuel solenoid since I am running a single fuel regulator!!

    The Nos tech contradicted the info on there web site!!

    I am running a dedicated fuel system for my nitrous setup.

    The car is running PIG rich on the bottle using the formula that I have been. (not taking into consideration the second fuel solenoid) I am using a flow tube to set my fuel pressure.
    Now there is a big differance in the flow tube jet size depending on which formula I use.

    "857" , what do you recommend??

    Thanks,
    Ike

  11. #61
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    nitrous tune

    to get started on any plate or fogger,base tune ups are what nos provides you with. although you will hear alot of contradictory info, I have found nos base tune ups to be very effective on plate tune ups! NOT ON FOGGERS at HIGHER POWER LEVELS! what kind of jetting are you trying and what flow tube method are you using? what tire size are you runnig? I can help you with a low pressure tune up. you seem to have done some researh and are trying to go in the right direction before you teart something all to hell! lets work together and get this fogger lined out! shoot me some more info and we go from there.
    SCUMBAG LOW-LIFE BECAUSE I RUN NITROUS

  12. #62
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    Okay,

    The car is fuel injected but the nitrous setup is using a low pressure setup.

    I am running a 240 shot which from what the NOS Tech told me is 28n 32f jetting. I took my fuel line loose from the Y. My flow tube connects to the fuel line and makes up the differance in length to my solenoids. I have a T at the end of my flow tube with a fitting for a holley carb jet and a FP gauge. I played with the fuel pressure at the track and had it anywhere from 8 to 5.5 psi all with the same results. The higher I raised the pressure, the slower the car ran and the worse the plugs looked. I have a really good tune on the motor and everything is up to par.

    I am running a 28x12.50 ET Street. Basically a 28x10 tire.

    Using the fuel pressure method for a single solenoid, the flow jet figures up to be .0905 or 91. I used a holley 91 jet to flow my setup.

    Using the other method for 2 solenoids, the flow jet figures up to be .064 or a holley 64 jet. I have not tried setting the fuel pressure using this method. There is a big differance in flow jet size and I've been a little hesitant to go with the smaller jet.

    This is the first fogger setup that I have ran and the tuning efforts are a little more difficult than I expected. It's turned into a chess game, not checkers!!

    Thanks,
    Ike

  13. #63
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    nitrous tune

    what scares me about your tune is that you said the car didn't change any with different fuel pressures. was that with the plate? could you send me a pic of your flow tube? I've never heard of the t style set up. where is the regulator? how are you supplying the fuel to the regulator? what pressure is the fuel at the regulator entrance? do you have a separate pump for the nitrous. I am tryin to follow you here,let's get the details down first. we need to establish a base tune and then go up from there.
    SCUMBAG LOW-LIFE BECAUSE I RUN NITROUS

  14. #64
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    The different fuel pressures were with the fogger setup. My flow tube is a piece of 8AN with a T fitting at the flowing end. One side of the T is my fuel pressure gauge and the other side is my jet fitting.

    Nos fuel system consists of a 10AN line from my fuel cell to a holley blue pump. From the pump into a Fram carbed fuel filter to 3/8" aluminum fuel line. 3/8" fuel line to a Aeromotive Fuel Pressure regulator. I have a Fuel pressure gauge on my regulator and am also using a gauge at the end of my flow tube. The regulator is monted on the drivers side fender in the engine compartment. From the regulator I am running a 8AN line to a nos supplied 8AN fuel Y. From the Y I am running 8AN line to the filters and solenoids. This is the section that is being eliminated with the flow tube. The length of the flow tube makes up the difference where my fuel supply lines connect from the Y to my fuel solenoid. I am seing about 1 PSI of friction loss from my regulator to my flow tube.

  15. #65
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    nitrous tune

    when you set the flow tube at 6 lbs,what does the regulator guage say?are you worried that the flow tube needs to be a certain length? have you ever tried a holley 12-803 reg. before? Did you make the flow tube yourself? what jet did you have in the flow tube when you made your best pass? The flow tube will be used for you to establish a base line for your personal needs. what works for 1 may not work for the next individual. have you ever tried the jets square,or with a larger nitrous jet ,instead of fuel jet? let me know where you stand.
    SCUMBAG LOW-LIFE BECAUSE I RUN NITROUS

  16. #66
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    When I set my flow tube to 6 psi my regulator gauge is reading 7psi. The only reason for the length of the actual flow tube is to simulate the fuel line for the system, compensate for friction lose, and to basically set the fuel pressure at the solenoids. I have never tried a holley 12-803 regulator.
    Yes, I made my own flow tube. I had a 78 jet in the flow tube for my best pass. This was made with a larger nitrous jet and what I was thinking was a smaller shot all together than what I am trying now. I tried to run larger fuel jets in the past and basically had the same results. The car would stumble and pop throught the exhaust. Right now the car leaves really hard but about 100' or so it just seems to load up and fall on its face. The car runs alot better with the larger nitrous jets. The only reason that I went back to a larger fuel jets was because of the conversation that I had with the Nos Tech!! It did catch me kinda odd that he was suggesting that I run a large fuel jets. I thought maybe i was setting my fuel pressure wrong all together. Thats why I'm here.

    I still don't know if I need to take into consideration the second fuel solenoid when figure out which flow jet to use. If I do, then the car will deffinately be leaner. I just don't know how much leaner and I'm not too fond of breaking parts!

    I am kinda in the dark as far as which way to jet this thing. Obviously the car doesn't like the larger fuel jets.

    Should I try running with the jets square and just start creeping down on my fuel jets, keeping a close eye on the plugs??

    Anyway I appreciate the time and effort you are putting into this problem. If it weren't for people like you this sport would definately loose its edge!!

    Thanks,
    Ike

  17. #67
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    nitrous tune

    the square idea sounds good to me.did the nos tech tell you to use larger fuel jets because of the fuel injection?anyway.........I would start square and flow with a 73 jet. even though the formula is calling for something different. you are getting youself a base line to tune from with the 73 jet. keep in mind that we are tuning a low pressure tune up. I would like to see you start out with a 32 nitrous jet and a 30 fuel jet.flow it with the 73 jet! no more than 950 lbs bottle pressure at the bottle[although you will be told to guage it at the front]this is just to get you down the track to get your kit dialed in. set it at 6.5 pounds of flowing pressure. Yes this is fat,yes it will work. The concern that I have is your flow tube,although you are simulating lengths,resistance,and all the technical things. you need the basics covered first. normally the pressure at the regulator is higher than 1 pound. Is there any way you can get me some pics. of your set up to help me tune this fogger? I am very hesitant about the fuel system and the flow tube. small things hooked up wrong can make things go all to hell. how about your retard? is the timing locked solid? what is the initial timing? how much are you taking out? lets get everything covered before we make a mistake.
    SCUMBAG LOW-LIFE BECAUSE I RUN NITROUS

  18. #68
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    No, the tech didn't tell me to use the larger fuel jets due to the fact the car is injected. I simply asked him for some jetting info and all the jet sizes for the fuel were bigger than the nitrous jets.

    Exactly what pics are you wanting and i will try to get them to you.

    I never run anymore than 950 #'s of bottle pressure.

    I am using a MSD Digital 6+ and I was pulling out 5* timing.

    My dist. is not locked solid and I am still using the stock piece.

    Initial timing is set at 18* and total is set to 34*.

    Before I changed the jets around, the car was running great on the motor and on the bottle. It has only been since I tried to jet the car up, after talking to the tech and taking his advice, that I have had problems. With the larger nitrous jets, I never had any of these problems. The car ran really strong and the plugs looked perfect.

  19. #69
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    nitrous tune

    lock the distributor solid,trust me! I can't picture the flow tube in my mind and I need to see it to clear myself about your tune up. I need to see the y you are refering to and the nitrous set up as much as you can get me.
    SCUMBAG LOW-LIFE BECAUSE I RUN NITROUS

  20. #70
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    Shoot me your e-mail addy and I will send the pics to you.
    nos2fly@hotmail.com

  21. #71
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    HEY 857!

    Just like you said, I tried both ways of tuning fuel pressure, not only was flowing it through the plate about 3/4 of a pound fat compared to the flow tube method, but my guage was wrong all this time also, by the time I hooked the good guage to it, I had been running about 9.75 lbs of pressure, so I reduced it to about 6.5 lbs, is this correct, flowing it for the 225 big shot plate pills (baseline)?
    Torque Monsters Inc.

  22. #72
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    Faq-u racing/nitrous tune

    Put the fuel jet that you use for 225 hp in your flow tube. set your flowing pressure[with the alternator turning,CAR RUNNING], if you use an alternator. If you do not use an alternator[set the battery charger on a setting that will maintain steady current,but not kick on and off while you are flowing. I have not laid eyes on your flow tube yet,nor have I saw NOS2FLY's flow tube yet. So proceed with caution,untill you are satisfied about the proper flow method. My reccomendation will work with what I have to use. This may differ on your set up. Since you have multiple passes on your plate already,and are following along with the pressure differences made by the different location of guages, I feel you have the experience to progress further. For a BASE-LINE,flow at 6.5 lbs with the fuel jet for the 225 hp setting. This will be pig-fat. It works for me. Once that you have established a BASE-LINE, LEAN the fuel pressure at 1/8 to 1/4 increments. Make sure that you are not reading the fuel pressure dead-headed at the regulator. Make sure that on the first pass,the hood guage stays at a constant. where is your timing at?
    SCUMBAG LOW-LIFE BECAUSE I RUN NITROUS

  23. #73
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    WHATS NOS'S PART # FOR THE FLOW TUBE?THANKS

  24. #74
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    Flow Tube Part #

    If you want a basic flow tube to establish a base line,call nos,ask for Mike Nelson. Tell him what you want. They will send you the flow tube set up in pieces. If you want the Ultimate set up. Call Jeff Prock-Applied Nitrous Technology-Tampa Fl. He can completely set up you nitrous system and will provide a flow tube for complete tunin capabilities.
    SCUMBAG LOW-LIFE BECAUSE I RUN NITROUS

  25. #75
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    Basics

    NOS/86, Now that you have saw the underhood of the s10. Somethin I don't want alot of people to see untill they see the truck crack off 8's. Do you understand what I mean about BASICS. I have the same parts you fellers do. We can make your cars HAMMER too. CHEAP!
    SCUMBAG LOW-LIFE BECAUSE I RUN NITROUS

  26. #76
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    cool ii see what you mean 857 . wellyou seen how cheap i was or am . i should crank my car wed .

    seeya eric

  27. #77

    Re: Basics

    857, hi there, I'm having problems with my pro shot fogger. This is my combination. 349 stroker brc custom NOS pistons,Vic Jr TFS TW heads, and the fogger, the carb is a 780cfm pro-system. I just install a custom cam for NOS, with the other cam and the fogger set up to 30nos 28 fuel the car ran a best of 10.21 at 132 mph, now it has this new cam and first time the car launch hard but right when I sent high gear the car falls on its nose, check the spark plugs and the 1 and 4 tips were almost gone, the others were turning blue. My Dist is an MSD lock down at 34 total timing with a digital retard box, taking out 10 degrs. I flow my fuel at the reg and put it at 6.5 psi and put a colder spark plug, 3933, square it to 28-28. Lauch hard but bearly sent 2nd gear when the motor started to fall off again. Flow it at 7psi, this time it made it to the 1/8 but fell again right at the 1/8 mile, still the car ran a 6.45 at 103mph, my fuel is set up like this, sump tank, 280 BG to the carb and 280 BG to the nos. The nos has 8an line to reg and from the regulator the the Fuel solenoid 6an. The nos is a 6an T off 4an to the NOS solenoids. For the carb is 8an to the reg and 6an for the carb bowls. I need help, I'm taking the heads off due to haveing problems with the copper head gasket, so I'm going to go with normal head gaskets, the block is an R302 block 0 ring. I think by one of your post that I'm flowing the system at the wrong place, any help I'll appreciate.

    Edgar

  28. #78
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    WICKD GT

    #1
    When you say flow at the regulator,tell me exactly what you are talkin about. Are you usein a flow tube? I want to tell you right now that I am not a fogger man. I can only help you with the flowin process. I will work with you up to the point of jettin the fogger. I am only a plate man. I can only help you with low p
    ressure tune ups.
    #2
    On the head gasket problems....RENFRO gave an answer that says it all about COPPER head gaskets on the high boost head gasket thread. It would be wise to take his advise. Don't pull you heads untill you read his threads. You may still have hope.
    SCUMBAG LOW-LIFE BECAUSE I RUN NITROUS

  29. #79
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    A few things here....

    1. Break your fuel line at the solenoid and insert your flow gauge there. Flow the line that is the longest....i.e. the furthest from your regulator. In doing so you will get the most accurate reading with the highest pressure drop...and that will be the side that will run the leanest. The way you are doing it won't tell you how much line loss you have between the regulator and solenoid. In all honesty, this isn't critical as long as you do it the same way every time....but it is a better way than what you are currently doing IMO.

    2. Blue spark plugs means too much heat in the cylinder. Pull 4 degrees of timing out and work your way back in. I've used 40 jets with 3933's, so your plugs are fine. I run a 2 jet spread on my fogger just like you, and your timing numbers sound high to me with those jets.

    3. Any time you make a change to your combination you need to back up a bit on the nitrous tune up. It sounds to me like your new cam may be fillng the cylinders better than the old one did....hence the need for less timing. If it has a lot more intake duration you're holding the valve open a lot longer and allowing the fogger to push a bunch more nitrous into the motor....even if the cams have the same lift. You can never assume that your old tune up will work on a new combination, even if all you changed was "just" the cam. Remember, the cam is the heart of the motor.

    4. Copper head gaskets = maintenance. You need to get used to it.....just like i did. I'm going to try Andy's suggestion and drain my car after every race next year. That expansion/contraction theory makes a lot of sense to me.

    Good luck....
    Temporarily Retired.....

  30. #80
    Originally posted by Dave Bandt
    A few things here....

    1. Break your fuel line at the solenoid and insert your flow gauge there. Flow the line that is the longest....i.e. the furthest from your regulator. In doing so you will get the most accurate reading with the highest pressure drop...and that will be the side that will run the leanest. The way you are doing it won't tell you how much line loss you have between the regulator and solenoid. In all honesty, this isn't critical as long as you do it the same way every time....but it is a better way than what you are currently doing IMO.

    2. Blue spark plugs means too much heat in the cylinder. Pull 4 degrees of timing out and work your way back in. I've used 40 jets with 3933's, so your plugs are fine. I run a 2 jet spread on my fogger just like you, and your timing numbers sound high to me with those jets.

    3. Any time you make a change to your combination you need to back up a bit on the nitrous tune up. It sounds to me like your new cam may be fillng the cylinders better than the old one did....hence the need for less timing. If it has a lot more intake duration you're holding the valve open a lot longer and allowing the fogger to push a bunch more nitrous into the motor....even if the cams have the same lift. You can never assume that your old tune up will work on a new combination, even if all you changed was "just" the cam. Remember, the cam is the heart of the motor.

    4. Copper head gaskets = maintenance. You need to get used to it.....just like i did. I'm going to try Andy's suggestion and drain my car after every race next year. That expansion/contraction theory makes a lot of sense to me.

    Good luck....
    So you telling me to take out 8 degs instead of 10? The old cam specs were 236/248 at .050 and 574/595 lift on a 110. The custom one is 244/256 at .050 and a lift of 550/550 with a 110. What I was told is that this cam was design with fast ramps on the intake and slow in the exhaust for the nitrous. The head gasket thing, gets old because I have releif the pressure after every pass and when I drive it on the street, some times, I relief the pressure too. Well Brain Tooley told me not to take off the orings and to put an 8548PT-2 Felpro head gasket, that is what the renegades cars are doing. I'm going to flow the NOS system like you said, because I have the passenger side the longets hose and that is were I'm having problems burning the spark plugs, this now makes sense to me, I'm going to try to put a 1 gallon fuel cell at the front so it can have good volume at the solenoids. Thanks for your help. The flow hose is a 6an with a 2 5/8 fuel pressure gauge, does it matter how long it is? Again thanks,

    Edgar

  31. #81
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    Originally posted by Wickd GT
    So you telling me to take out 8 degs instead of 10?
    NOOOOOO! I guess i wasn't clear enough in how i worded my response. What i meant to say was take out another 4 degrees of timing....for a total of 14....and then start adding it back in as the plugs tell you to. If you are having problems at 10 and go to 8 you'll have a real mess on your hands.

    Now...this cam stuff is interesting. If you look at the duration numbers @0.050 for both of the cams you'll notice that they are larger for the new one. What this means is that the cam is holding the valves open longer than the old one....so both of the ramps are steeper on the new grind. Since you are spraying nitrous into the motor somewhere around 1000PSI the amount of time the valve is open is a lot more important than lift numbers. The reason you had problems was because the valves were open longer with the new cam which let in more nitrous and fuel and you didn't have enough timing out to keep it from detonating. Back the timing off more and you should be OK.

    As far as a flow hose goes.....I'm not familiar with them. I attached a picture of what i use. The stuff to make it is readily available at any hardware store and the cost will be around $50 depending on how elaborate you go with the gauge. All you need is....

    1. A 1/4" pipe "T"
    2. A 6AN to 1/4 pipe adaptor
    3. A 1/4 pipe plug
    4. A good 4" or 6" 0-15PSI gauge
    5. A 70,71, or 72 Holley fuel jet

    Drilling and tapping the hole for the jet is the tricky part. Holley uses an odd ball thread on the jets. If memory serves me correct they are a 1/8"X32 thread. I had to order a special tap to get the threads right. I use a 71 jet whether i'm spraying 200 or 400HP. Some people change the jets but i don't bother and that has worked fine for me.

    I hope this helps.....
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Temporarily Retired.....

  32. #82
    Well, Dave guess what! I pull the head and everything was looking good until I saw piston number 4, it lip it up on the top of the piston, since I put this fogger the only thing I have is problems, I think I'm going back to my Pro Racing plate, thanks for your help.

    Edgar

  33. #83
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    Dave Bandt

    Hey Dave,
    Just wanted to say thanks for the info that you sent me via e-mail. You made some valid points and I appreciate all the effort you put forth in solving these issues. Thank you!!

    Ike

  34. #84
    I have been messing with foggers for qiute some time so if it is ok i would like to offer some info. For starters what size rings are you using and what is the rod length? If you have a 5.4 rod and standard size rings that is a problem. Trust me i have been there on a 349 ci engine. Have chris@ross make you some pistons with .043 rings and that will give you some room between the top ring and the bottom of the intake valve relief.
    Now for the nitrous tune up. Sometimes you have to take a step back and start over to actually get somewhere, then you look back and say 'damn that was easy!'. Spark plugs -- autolite AR3932-3934 (3934 being a starting point). Make sure you have atleast #10 coming out of the fuel cell going to the pump, #8 to the reg.,#6 to the sol.( i recall you had a separate bg 280? that is fine). use a 72 TEST JET REGARDLESS OF NITROUS SETTING!!! Set f.p. to 6. start small with your tuneup, i think you are starting to big. try this setup -- 28 nitrous jet, 24 fuel jet, use only quality fuel, 22 deg total timing (22 leaves a little room to raise it up later after a few passes, also i don't care where motor timng is as long as it is 22 on nos! 240-250 hp on rear wheel dyno) 975-1000 bottle press when you pull to the burnout box. I usually "test" the system 2-3 times before staging the car. Of you will still have to check plugs but you will probably go quicker than ever. It sounds to me like you were flooding the engine with fuel - hence a 6.40 at only 103. I know it burned a plug but didn't it get worse when you raised the f.p.?Make a few half track passes, check the plugs, and if all is well make a full pass. ENJOY!!!


    CHRIS TUTEN R/S #10
    ATS PERFORMANCE

  35. #85
    Chris, thanks for the reply. Besides finding piston #4 lip up #1 was too and the second rings were colaps. The pistons are Custom Nitrous BRC pistons with 1/16 1/16 3/16 rings, this time the rings are Stainles Steel rings. The car actually when I raised the FP its when I could make it thru the 1/8. Once I put it together I'm going to start small, like 24/24 (175nos) and pull timing to 22 degrs, and go from there. Actually I agree with you, it will probably go faster with the small tune up and this custom Cam. The block I picked it up last night, the o rings are gone and the receiver too, the heads are 54cc(TFS Wedge) and going to end at 12.75:1, now I need to find out what head gasket to use, Felpro 1011-1,1021 or anyone than can be recomended, for this R302 Block, the water holes have been plug that are not been use. I'm looking for a way to put a 1 gal cell up front with the 280BG pum so there will be constan fuel at the solenoids. The old rings were set .020 top ring and 2nd .016", now going to put at .022" top and leave 2nd ring at 0.16. Thanks for you advice and anymore you can provide, thanks:

    Edgar

  36. #86
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    Originally posted by Wickd GT
    The old rings were set .020 top ring and 2nd .016", now going to put at .022" top and leave 2nd ring at 0.16. Thanks for you advice and anymore you can provide, thanks:
    That sounds aweful tight for a big shot of NOS. The ring stack you are using sounds unstable. I'd have to agree with the 0.043 comment to give you more meat between the ring lands....but that's just my opinion. One last thing......even up the end gaps or run 0.002" MORE for the 2nd if you plan on shooting lots at it. As far as gaskets go......I've heard a lot of good about the Cometic ones but have never used them myself. If my block wasn't Lock-Wired that's what i'd try.....
    Temporarily Retired.....

  37. #87
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    prestonsburg
    Posts
    104

    PISSIN CONTESTS

    I will not enter a pissin contest. I can and do flow nitrous kit differently. The motor determines the test jet, not the flow-ee.
    SCUMBAG LOW-LIFE BECAUSE I RUN NITROUS

  38. #88
    HEY DAVE, I AM CURIOUS ABOUT THE .002 MORE ON THE 2ND RING. IS THAT SOMETHING YOU HAVE TRIED WITH SUCCESS?JUST BEING CURIOUS, ALWAYS LOOKING FOR NEW IDEAS.

  39. #89
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Iron Mountain, MI
    Posts
    334
    Chris....

    I'll try to send you an email.



    Pissin contest...........all is see here is people expressing their thoughts and opinions. I know guys that go really fast using both methods to flow the fuel side of their nitrous systems.....so it seems to me it's just a matter of preference which way you choose to do it. Being an engineer, i understand how some could argue that changing the the flow jet size to equal the equivalent area of the jets in the nitrous system is important. On the other side of the coin....many of us know that fluid flow rates through a jet are non-linear. So to say that the rate of fuel deliver through 8 fuel jest of one size is that same as through 1 fuel jet size of another is a long shot. Or at least it is in my opinion. People that flow nitrous systems quanitify the non-linearity of your system and map it for you, thereby allowing you to make better tuning decisions without all the trial and error. Personally, I followed the advice of a guy that tuned Pro Mod nitrous engines for 7 years when i first got into this stuff. He told me not to bother changing jets because he said it didn't make that big of a difference to the fuel flow delivery rate. I took his advice and I haven't had any problems doing it that way, so that's why I recommend that others follow suit. The next time i work on my car i plan on measuring my fuel flow rate at several different PSI's to get an idea of how much fuel i'm putting into the motor. I also plan on changing the fuel jet in my flowing gauge a couple of times and running it at the same pressures. I'll then be able to know EXACTLY how big of an effect changing the flow tool jet size has on my fuel delivery rate at any given pressure. I know other people out there have done this before. It would be nice to see them post their results.
    Temporarily Retired.....

  40. #90
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    prestonsburg
    Posts
    104

    DAVE

    Flow a big shot with a small fuel jet and then stick the 116 in and see what happens. we do not determine the flow,the motor does.
    SCUMBAG LOW-LIFE BECAUSE I RUN NITROUS

  41. #91
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Iron Mountain, MI
    Posts
    334

    Re: DAVE

    Originally posted by 857
    Flow a big shot with a small fuel jet and then stick the 116 in and see what happens.
    You are correct.......controlling the flow rate of both nitrous and fuel is the key to tuning nitrous systems. The system will undoubtedly flow more fuel with bigger jets at the same pressure. But let's look at some numbers......rough estimates too, not concrete tune up facts.....and see if we can make sense of this.

    Your way.......

    200 shot......6.5 PSI through a 71 jet
    400+ shot.......6.5 PSI through a 116.

    My way.....

    250 shot......6.25 PSI through a 71 jet
    400+ shot.....6.75 PSI through a 71 jet

    I keep the flow tube jet orifice size constant and vary pressure. You keep fuel pressure relatively constant and vary jet size. Both ways alter the flow rate of fuel into the motor. Both ways require fine adjustment of the fuel pressure to dial the tune up in....as is the case with all nitrous systems. What's the difference between the two methods? I just don't see where one is right and the other is wrong.

    And i'm not busting your balls here, Kent. I'm just trying to understand what you are saying.
    Temporarily Retired.....

  42. #92
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    prestonsburg
    Posts
    104

    DAVE

    If you flow the 350+ with a 71 jet and only increase it 1/4 pound and then insert the 116 jet,it will be lean as hell. flow with the 71 and then hook up the plate with the 116 jet in it and see what the pressure drops to. It will fall way off.below 5.5. I can see usin the 71 to establish a base line on a fogger at no more than 200/250 to get started. but a big dose on a plate will melt with the 71 flow method.
    SCUMBAG LOW-LIFE BECAUSE I RUN NITROUS

  43. #93
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Iron Mountain, MI
    Posts
    334
    It's interesting that that's what you've seen. I can honestly say that I see less than a 1 PSI swing when going from a 250 to a 400 shot when keeping the flow tool jet size constant. But i always start with higher pressures and take out fuel as the plugs tell me to. And every time i put bigger jets in the fogger i add fuel pressure too......just to be safe.
    Temporarily Retired.....

  44. #94
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    prestonsburg
    Posts
    104

    DAVE

    I can see 3 and sometimes 4.
    SCUMBAG LOW-LIFE BECAUSE I RUN NITROUS

  45. #95
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    prestonsburg
    Posts
    104

    Flow Tubes

    Dave, I have been fortunate enough to try several different styles of flow tubes. The cheapest being around 60.00 and the most expensive around 500.00. I have that flow tubes read differently depending on the placement of the guage and the diameter of the hose. I think the innitial head pressure on the regulator and the base pressure of the pump is a major contributing factor. I have moved both of these things around on my set-up and have found some interesting things. Build up at the regulator and bleed jets have not seemed to be the answer on my set-up.
    SCUMBAG LOW-LIFE BECAUSE I RUN NITROUS

  46. #96
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    EASTRIDGE,TN
    Posts
    87
    857's ideas have been working for me , i haven't had any problems since he hooked me up . it is simple and easy .

    by the way kent i spunn a rod bearing ! i'll have it bad together in a few weeks .

    seeya eric

  47. #97
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    prestonsburg
    Posts
    104

    NOS/86

    Tell these dudes how you made a flow tube and how cheap it is.
    SCUMBAG LOW-LIFE BECAUSE I RUN NITROUS

  48. #98
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    EASTRIDGE,TN
    Posts
    87
    ok kent

    my flow tube is like this ...

    1 12in line 6an to 4an (goto tee)
    1 4an to 4an tee
    1 4an to 4an coupler (from tee to guage)
    1 autometer pro comp. fuel gauge
    1 12in line 4an to 3an (from tee) to JET(WHATEVER SIZE
    YOU ARE USING IN PLATE) then to the fitin that holds jet .
    1 fitin out of nos plate that holds jet .

    then flow into contaner !

    seeya eric

  49. #99
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    EASTRIDGE,TN
    Posts
    87
    i think the whole setup would cost about $75 to make . i had every part sitting here to build it .

    seeya eric

  50. #100
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    41
    Originally posted by NOS/86
    ok kent

    my flow tube is like this ...

    1 12in line 6an to 4an (goto tee)
    1 4an to 4an tee
    1 4an to 4an coupler (from tee to guage)
    1 autometer pro comp. fuel gauge
    1 12in line 4an to 3an (from tee) to JET(WHATEVER SIZE
    YOU ARE USING IN PLATE) then to the fitin that holds jet .
    1 fitin out of nos plate that holds jet .

    then flow into contaner !

    seeya eric

    Pic Please

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